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Expensive Physician NerdLove,
Very long time reader and bona-fide straight girl right here. One thing struck me in your newest column, “What Makes A Man Enticing to Ladies?” The LW lists examples of “unattractive” males that masc-attracted girls “declare” are sizzling for example their query. This time, it was Pete Davidson (I solely get the enchantment within the tutorial sense there, so I kind of perceive the LW’s confusion) and “that man from The Bear.” And it truthfully took me a second to understand he meant Jeremy Allen White. Jeremy Allen White, Twitter embodiment of the sexually competent dirtbag line prepare dinner (additionally, if straight males wish to additional perceive the enchantment, maybe they need to return and reread the primary 2 phrases of the meme). Jeremy Allen White, who appears to be like like a ripped Botticelli portray come to life. Style and attraction are each very particular person and subjective, so I get if a selected particular person isn’t notably into the Italian Excessive Renaissance, however I don’t perceive how somebody may have a look at him and never perceive how a lot of different folks can be into it?
That is one thing that has struck me in nearly each iteration of that query that you just’ve answered through the years. Practically each time, the LW supplies examples of “unattractive” males girls are going nuts over to show their thesis and people “unattractive” males are nearly all the time males my straight and bi feminine associates take into account very conventionally enticing. I discover it baffling each time. I expressed my bafflement to the straight girl group chat and my associates and I shortly ended up with a listing of straight males have, in some unspecified time in the future or one other, expressed confusion with reference to their enchantment or have requested us to “clarify” a lot to our confusion: Dev Patel, Oscar Issac, Ryan Gosling, Paul Rudd, Daniel Dae Kim, and Henry Golding.
Doc.
These are simply sizzling folks. Once more, not the entire group chat are personally interested in all of those males however all of them match comfortably into our collective conception of “good-looking man.”
Which ends up in my query: what on earth is the usual straight males are utilizing to guage different males as enticing to girls? If Dev Patel and a dude who appears to be like like he was commissioned by a Medici don’t qualify, who does? Is it like, Chris Evans, Chris Hemsworth and nobody else? If the lads on my listing are exhibiting up in Google searches of “actors who aren’t conventionally enticing,” what the blistering hell is the conference? (Clearly, whiteness is an element within the listing above, however it’s not the entire story).
Maybe that is an unanswerable query, however I’m truthfully curious as to what the letter writers who’re contacting you suppose we’re into.
Sincerely,
Fodder for the Group Chat
My God, it’s like Christmas got here early for me. Final week I obtained an opportunity to go on in regards to the supposed mystifying enchantment of Pete Davidson and this week you’re asking for me to speak about guys thought about whats enticing in different males.
OK, in order a very long time reader, you’ve undoubtedly seen the recurring theme of “Am I too ugly so far“, and the same old comparisons to Chris Evans, Hemsworth and Pratt and occasional bonus Henry Cavill’s thrown in for good measure. And, in fact, there’s the ever basic level of comparability, Brad Pitt – particularly when Pitt was in his Tyler Durden form for Battle Membership.
These are typically the touchstones for “guys who different guys suppose girls discover enticing” – or a minimum of for the parents most susceptible to write down in to recommendation columns and subreddits to complain about not having the ability to measure up. You already know… extraordinarily on-line guys. Which is a part of the issue. A whole lot of the parents who’re writing in to complain are inclined to additionally both be a part of on-line communities – not simply incels, however MRAs and redpillers, pick-up artists and numerous different gathering spots of largely younger males who’re additionally both pissed off or remoted and ceaselessly really feel marginalized. There’s a lot of shared knowledge inside these communities, the courting and attraction equal of “just-so tales” that purport to “clarify” what girls discover fascinating in males.
Evidently, this… doesn’t lend itself nicely to numerous – and even correct – concepts about attractiveness. As a rule, people are inclined to drift to some particular beliefs and the lads who, of their thoughts, finest signify these beliefs. It’s not that stunning, then, that the most typical touchstones are typically males in films or TV exhibits predominantly aimed toward males. And that is the place a part of the disconnect occurs.
Now, I’m going to look like I’m going off on a tangent in a pair paragraphs, however belief me: that is all tie collectively like the top of Uncommon Suspects. Simply keep on with me.
See, the lads who’re portrayed in these exhibits – to not point out comics and video video games – are, for probably the most half, primarily energy fantasies for different males. They’re the avatar that represents who the viewer, participant or reader needs they could possibly be, somebody who dominates, who beats the forces arrayed towards them and who’s in the end vindicated in every little thing he does. It’s not stunning that their look is all about energy – six foot tall behemoths, jacked up muscular tissues with single digit physique fats, lantern jaws, gimlet eyes, and so on. There are minor variations in character – test the notable distinction between Steve Rogers, Geralt of Rivia and Peter Quill – however these are in the end superficial variations. The thought is that these are people who can impose their will upon the world and be rewarded for it. And a part of that reward is the adoration of ladies, both normally or one girl specifically. The thought is that energy, as Henry “Face Like a Bulldog Licking Piss off A Thistle” Kissinger stated, is the final word aphrodisiac.
(Nevermind the truth that Kissinger’s repute as a girl’s man was extra self-mythologizing than actuality and that his whole sport was “hearken to what girls need to say”, somewhat than the inherent enchantment of being Secretary of State or one thing…)
However the factor is, the supposed “you possibly can’t get laid until you appear to be…” logic isn’t that these males are Intercourse Gods made flesh, and extra about poisonous beliefs of masculinity. Now don’t get me improper: no person’s gonna truthfully say that Chris Evans isn’t a great trying man or that his Captain America bod isn’t spectacular as hell. However the concept guys want to appear to be this isn’t about attraction. Not likely. It’s about feeling powerless. It’s about feeling such as you don’t have the flexibility to affect the world or impose your will upon it and this makes you lesser. This can be a bitter capsule for a bunch of parents who missed the purpose of Battle Membership: that they’ve been bought a invoice of products about Being A Man, and the supposed rewards that they had been promised won’t ever truly be delivered.
However as a substitute of confronting the beliefs that make them depressing, that exclude them and clearly had been by no means going to truly repay the best way they had been taught, they as a substitute give attention to the concept this implies both they did one thing improper… or that they’re being cheated of one thing.
Now, chances are you’ll discover simply how most of the supposed “masculinity” gurus – those who’ll train you be a REAL MAN like your ancestors had been and the way you’re meant to be – put a lot emphasis on muscling up. Andrew Tate and the weirdos with self-given nicknames like The Golden One or the dude who known as himself Liver King or some shit and dozens of TikTok randos all make a giant deal out of making an attempt to appear to be Ivan Drago all put big emphasis on “I’m an actual man, have a look at my abs, appear to be me and also you’ll be an actual man too not like the pussified wimps who’re making an attempt to carry you again”. They’re enjoying to the energy side, and searching like a physique builder is – theoretically an outward signal of being highly effective. And the idea is, to cite but one other film that dudes misunderstand, “you get the ability, you then get the ladies.”
By no means thoughts that they’re operating Potemkin lives, fueled by grift, overextended credit score, blatant lies and steroid abuse… they’re going to make you a “REAL man”, which implies being highly effective and in cost and dominant. And solely dominant males can succeed. And since these dudes are (supposedly) profitable, these are what DOMINANT REAL MEN appear to be.
However once more: it depends on people’ ignorance. Physique builders aren’t truly robust. In reality, whenever you see somebody in superhero form taking their shirt off on display, you’re seeing somebody who’s truly at their weakest. The dehydration, hunger and general poor well being outcomes provide you with outcomes that look nice on digital camera – particularly when enhanced with make-up and favorable lighting – however go away you feeling like ten kilos of shit in a 5 pound sack. Cavill, specifically, has been outspoken at simply how depressing it’s to be in that form and the way they should get these scenes carried out in a single or two takes, as a result of he’s about to break down right into a puddle.
There’s a cause why the literal strongest males on this planet appear to be ambulatory beer kegs, not like Arnold on the top of his Mister Olympia days. Seen muscle isn’t the identical as robust. It appears to be like nice, however it’s an phantasm.
However because it represents energy, and energy makes you a “actual” man and “actual” males are those who get girls… you get a bunch of men who suppose that girls reject them as a result of they don’t have eight-pack abs. It’s why the concept of men who know costume decently, trim their nails and don’t douse themselves in Axe was so bizarre to some people that folks began calling them “metrosexual” – hinting ever so subtly that yeah they’re straight however we will all agree it’s kinda homosexual, proper? Proper? Guys? Proper?
Now, a part of what solidifies this disconnect is the underlying perception that they’ve been lied to, however they’ve discovered the reality. A part of the rationale, for instance, that quite a lot of the identical guys can’t perceive the enchantment of Henry Goulding or Dev Patel or Jungkook (moreover, y’know, racism), or Pete Davidson or Paul Rudd for that matter, is as a result of they refuse to imagine that these guys – who don’t meet these supposed “bio fact” requirements – could possibly be enticing. The core of their perception – energy, dominance, and so on. – relies on trying highly effective and thus being enticing. They’ll costume it up in language like “having the ability to present” or “defend your loved ones” however it’s about imposing their will on others.
Since no person’s going to accuse Randall Park of being a dominant powerhouse, they really feel like the ladies who “supposedly” discover him enticing have to be mendacity for… causes. Name it advantage signaling, name it wanting to look woke, however the guys who’ve most purchased into the concept of the ability fantasy being a intercourse fantasy will simply provide you with new, weird rationalizations as to why girls be mendacity. Or they’ll complain that contraception makes girls need female guys as a substitute of REAL males or another method of defending their ego.
In the meantime, women are having their sexual awakening at David Bowie in Labyrinth and Disney’s animated Robin Hood, or getting squishy feels due to non-physical qualities. The precise method that Michael B. Jordan says “hello, auntie” in Black Panther or Keith David’s basso profundo as Goliath in Gargoyles, or the generally bizarre depth and keenness of Matt Smith as The Physician… these have all been huge, huge turn-ons for people, regardless of these characters not being energy fantasies.
When you see that, it’s in every single place – in films, journal covers and promoting. Should you dig deep sufficient – although let’s be sincere, it ain’t that deep – it’s straightforward to see how a lot incel phrenology conforms to the concept of energy and dominance, not precise attractiveness. Between physique frames, jaw form, forehead ridge, index fingers and testosterone ranges… it’s not about being enticing, it’s about trying highly effective, whereas they’re feeling energymuch less.
And naturally, we will’t ignore the social side of it both. Males already have fewer associates – particularly shut associates – than girls and even fewer sources of emotional intimacy or assist. You’re not going to discover a bunch of (straight) guys pumping one another up about how good they appear or how attractive they’re as a result of it’s “homosexual” or “girly” or “weak”. Mix that with the assumption that girls are mendacity to them as a result of FUCK YOU, PENIS, THAT’S WHY, and it’s not exhausting to know why quite a lot of guys have mistaken concepts about what makes them enticing to girls.
And till guys cease complicated energy with attractiveness or making a gift of their very own energy… nicely, that’s most likely not going to vary any time quickly for a big variety of males.
Hi there Doc,
Lots of people counsel doing exercise teams or interest teams for assembly associates and potential dates. Nicely, I’ve gotten out of my consolation zone, discovered a couple of new actions that may be carried out with different folks that I genuinely take pleasure in on their very own, comparable to a couple of types of swing dance and yoga, and I do suppose my life is best due to that.
Nonetheless, I’ve but to actually enhance my social lives from these. I haven’t actually made any new actually good associates, I haven’t had any dates, I haven’t had anybody introduce me to different folks they know. I’m not going to lie, I wish to have that occur, however I don’t actually know the way. Every time I’m going to a swing dance evening, for a lot of the evening, everyone seems to be doing a little mixture of the next:
1. Already dancing.
2. Speaking to different folks.
3. Utilizing their telephone.
4. Busy with one thing else.
Now, folks do ask me to bop, and after I don’t get too anxious or down on myself, I ask them, however I don’t actually have a lot interplay with others aside from that.
My query is as soon as I’ve began going to exercise or interest teams, then what? What do I do to make associates, discover dates, or for different to ask me to features the place I may meet folks to ALSO probably be new associates or dates?
Singled Out
This one’s straightforward, SO. You even stated it your self: you don’t have a lot interplay with them outdoors of dancing.
Nicely there’s your downside.
Right here’s the factor: you appear to be ready or hoping for people to do the work. You confirmed up, so now it’s their flip, proper? Sadly, it doesn’t actually work that method. You confirmed up, which is nice! However that’s not even half the job carried out. Hell, that’s barely the primary quarter of the job carried out.
That is one thing quite a lot of people have a problem with. Both they go to an occasion as soon as and by no means go once more, or they go however don’t work together with anybody, or they go and take part however don’t socialize, or they don’t take energetic steps to truly join with folks. It’s like they really feel they’ve put within the minimal required effort and now they’ll get their reward for it.
The issue with this method is that life doesn’t work that method. It’s a really passive method of going by issues, hoping that different folks will do the exhausting or scary issues for you, as a substitute of getting to do all of it your self. And whereas I can perceive that preliminary feeling of “nicely, can’t they meet me half method?” or “why do I’ve to be the one to do all of the work?”, this tends to fall beneath the concept there’s some form of magic concerned. Do the ritual proper and increase, now associates and dates roll in.
But it surely doesn’t work like that. Not as a result of individuals are lazy and insular or aren’t . It’s as a result of we don’t make associates or connections that method. Yeah, generally a shy particular person will get fortunate and somebody extraordinarily outgoing will functionally undertake them, however for probably the most half? The individuals who aren’t connecting with you aren’t doing so since you’re giving them nothing to attach with.
Placing your self on the market doesn’t imply simply exhibiting up and ready. It implies that you’re advertising your self. It’s a must to be energetic and take a deliberate roll in your making an attempt to attach with people as a substitute of hoping that your mere presence goes to be sufficient. Simply as firms can’t simply hold a shingle and hope that strangers discover them by random happenstance, it’s a must to exit and make folks conscious that you just exist and that they need to get to know you.
This implies, for instance, doing extra than simply going to a swing evening and ready for openings. The truth that individuals are already speaking doesn’t imply you can’t take part. Whether or not you be a part of a gaggle and quietly hear till you’ve got one thing to share, step in with the basic “I couldn’t assist however overhear”, and even simply say “hey, I’m new right here and I needed to say ‘hello’”, you can be a part of that dialog. Then, over the course of speaking with people, you possibly can then ask somebody to bop. That’s actually the way it works. At social dances, particularly ones like swing dancing, it’s anticipated that you just’re going to ask a bunch of various folks to bop, even when you barely know them. Some people will say no, however extra will say sure.
However when you don’t speak with them – earlier than or after a dance – then they don’t know you’re searching for associates. They don’t know you wish to join or get to know them higher, and so they actually received’t know you’re trying, ideally, for a date. The identical applies to being launched to different folks; generally you’ll discover a born networker who’ll simply deliver you over to others, however most of the time, if you’d like an introduction, you could let folks know that’s what you’re searching for. They will’t learn your thoughts, in any case.
Now, is it truthful that you’ve to take action a lot of the work? Nicely, you’re asking the improper query, as a result of equity doesn’t enter the equation. If you need people to know the way superior you’re as a buddy or companion, then it’s a must to be keen to present them. That implies that, a minimum of at first, you’re going to need to be the initiator, the networker and the marketer. You’re going to need to be proactive in what you’re searching for and keen to make the primary bids for connection – whether or not that is asking somebody to bop, or when you can join on WhatsApp.
And, by the way, generally, you’ll have to prime the pump. Would you like people to ask you to their events, occasions and get-togethers? Nicely, generally the easiest way to get that to occur is to ask people to those that you throw, first. Not solely do they now see that you just’re considering connecting and being associates – which they be taught out of your making this primary transfer – however additionally they get to see you being social and charming and pleasant… somebody they clearly ought to have of their lives.
However they’ll’t know any of this till you present them that it exists within the first place. You’ve taken that first step. Now it’s time to take the following, and the one after that. Earlier than you recognize it, although? You’ll nonetheless be taking steps… however you received’t be strolling alone; you’ll have your mates and lovers strolling alongside you.
Good luck.
A pair extra issues earlier than I’m going.
First: I’ll be doing a dwell Q&A for my Patrons on December 29th, with Q&As open to my normal viewers coming sooner or later. Should you’re considering collaborating, take into account supporting the positioning by turning into a patron at patreon.com/DrNerdLove; patron questions will get precedence in future dwell streams.
Second: Because the we’re coming to the top of the yr, I’ve a pair requests. First, since January is Nationwide Break Up Month, I’m placing out a name for questions on ending relationships: when you could finish it, finish a relationship the fitting method, when a relationship may be fastened and deal with break ups – both because the dumper or the dumpee. As all the time, submit your questions by way of the submission type, or ship them to doc@doctornerdlove.com with “Nationwide Break Up Month Query” within the header.
Third: Since that’s additionally a hell of a downer, for February – particularly for Valentine’s Day – I wish to hear your Relationship Wins. Inform me about methods you and your sweetie turned issues round, what you’ve discovered about making issues work, the way you two solved issues collectively or in any other case made one another’s lives higher. Let’s share some happiness and unfold hope, particularly in a month when quite a lot of people could really feel at their lowest. Who is aware of, perhaps you’ll see your story featured right here.
